Comments on: Response to Rian Johnson #2 http://indie4k.com/archives/97 A blog about the technical, financial and creative aspects of HD and Ultra-HD independant filmmaking. Mon, 30 Aug 2010 21:56:32 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Indie4K » Blog Archive » A Look Back at useful posts http://indie4k.com/archives/97/comment-page-1#comment-8931 Indie4K » Blog Archive » A Look Back at useful posts Fri, 16 Oct 2009 18:08:16 +0000 http://indie4k.com/?p=97#comment-8931 <p>[...] Response to Rian Johnson #2 [...]</p> [...] Response to Rian Johnson #2 [...]

]]> By: Noah http://indie4k.com/archives/97/comment-page-1#comment-2936 Noah Thu, 16 Oct 2008 08:24:10 +0000 http://indie4k.com/?p=97#comment-2936 <p>I dont see what the big deal is guys. Why arent you talking more about the F35 and genesis which from my understanding use 12MP 35mm sized sensors not so different from RED. They use a different color pattern and different technology, but in the end, the layout of the photosites isnt so different. It does seem that the F35/23/genesis have a bit more dynamic range than RED, but the cameras are so different that many of the comparisons Rian makes really dont seem relevant. So HDCAM SR processes that 12MP originated image into a codec that stores it at 440Mbps (55MBps) and RED stores it at 36MBps. So HDCAMSR records 50% more data. Then again it may throw away more in processing and scaling that RAW might save. RED has its modularity going for it, and sony cameras have ease of integration into existing systems going for them. youll have trouble finding an editing system that will do decompression of redcode with a high quality debayer in realtime at 4k, but uncompressed HD is easy to handle with a RAID and a several year old editing system. Either way it is a bit unfair to compare RED to cameras that are 10x its price. If red came out with a module that would process its RAW data in real time and output a final image over hd-sdi like Sony cameras, would people pay $150k for it? some might, most wouldn't, they'd just shoot with a genesis instead. The beauty of Red is that they provided a new, totally different option, workflow, price point etc. Some people definitely wish it wasn't so different in so many ways (some probably wish it was just a genesis for a fraction of the price, but it is what it is and it is likely they couldn't have done it that many other ways (how much more would it have cost to put more processing in camera? to use a CCD? my guess is quite a bit).</p> I dont see what the big deal is guys. Why arent you talking more about the F35 and genesis which from my understanding use 12MP 35mm sized sensors not so different from RED. They use a different color pattern and different technology, but in the end, the layout of the photosites isnt so different. It does seem that the F35/23/genesis have a bit more dynamic range than RED, but the cameras are so different that many of the comparisons Rian makes really dont seem relevant. So HDCAM SR processes that 12MP originated image into a codec that stores it at 440Mbps (55MBps) and RED stores it at 36MBps. So HDCAMSR records 50% more data. Then again it may throw away more in processing and scaling that RAW might save. RED has its modularity going for it, and sony cameras have ease of integration into existing systems going for them. youll have trouble finding an editing system that will do decompression of redcode with a high quality debayer in realtime at 4k, but uncompressed HD is easy to handle with a RAID and a several year old editing system. Either way it is a bit unfair to compare RED to cameras that are 10x its price. If red came out with a module that would process its RAW data in real time and output a final image over hd-sdi like Sony cameras, would people pay $150k for it? some might, most wouldn’t, they’d just shoot with a genesis instead. The beauty of Red is that they provided a new, totally different option, workflow, price point etc. Some people definitely wish it wasn’t so different in so many ways (some probably wish it was just a genesis for a fraction of the price, but it is what it is and it is likely they couldn’t have done it that many other ways (how much more would it have cost to put more processing in camera? to use a CCD? my guess is quite a bit).

]]> By: Rian vs Red at FreshDV http://indie4k.com/archives/97/comment-page-1#comment-2910 Rian vs Red at FreshDV Wed, 15 Oct 2008 05:46:52 +0000 http://indie4k.com/?p=97#comment-2910 <p>[...] course, the Red faithful have been up in arms about this article, Indie4k has written three detailed responses so far, and I’m sure more will come. Johnson has responded to 1 and 2 so far in [...]</p> [...] course, the Red faithful have been up in arms about this article, Indie4k has written three detailed responses so far, and I’m sure more will come. Johnson has responded to 1 and 2 so far in [...]

]]> By: Rian http://indie4k.com/archives/97/comment-page-1#comment-2686 Rian Sat, 04 Oct 2008 01:17:09 +0000 http://indie4k.com/?p=97#comment-2686 <p>Hey Chris - I posted in the first article but I'll cut and paste here as well. Happy to be engaging with you on the Red, this sort of friendly back and forth can only help advance the technology in the long run.</p> <p>I've posted a rebuttal to your points in both your articles here:</p> <p>http://www.rcjohnso.com/redbuttal.html</p> <p>I'll just reiterate that we're not saying Red is a bad camera, in fact for the price we agree it's a very good camera. Our one and only point is to refute the notion that Red is the equal of or better than top end digital cinema cameras.</p> <p>cheers, Rian Johnson</p> Hey Chris – I posted in the first article but I’ll cut and paste here as well. Happy to be engaging with you on the Red, this sort of friendly back and forth can only help advance the technology in the long run.

I’ve posted a rebuttal to your points in both your articles here:

http://www.rcjohnso.com/redbuttal.html

I’ll just reiterate that we’re not saying Red is a bad camera, in fact for the price we agree it’s a very good camera. Our one and only point is to refute the notion that Red is the equal of or better than top end digital cinema cameras.

cheers, Rian Johnson

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